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RE: [ba-ohs-talk] Learning Groove

HKvE --    (01)

Thanks to you (and others) for your messages.    (02)

This Groove thread is interesting, and is indicative of just some of the
disappointing and stubborn social barriers to rapidly boosting Collective
IQ. To wit,    (03)

"And one should bear in mind that there is nothing more difficult to
execute, nor more dubious of success, nor more dangerous to administer than
to introduce a new system; for he who introduces it has all those who profit
from the old system as his enemies, and he has only lukewarm allies in all
those who might profit from the new system. This lukewarmness partly stems
from fear of their adversaries, who have the law on their side, and partly
from the skepticism of men who do not truly believe in new things unless
they have actually had personal experience of them."    (04)

								- Niccolo Machiavelli, 1510    (05)

Remember, the essence of the Human System and Tool System dichotomy and its
concomitant Capabilities Infrastructure is not so much -how- it works, but
how it gets -used- ...and if it boosts Collective IQ.    (06)

If OHS was to happen all at once, then it would have been here years ago.    (07)

Few, if any, OHS offerings operate at the key intersection of the Human
System and Tool System and deliver true C-level capabilities. The singular
quest must be radical qualitative improvements in the Capabilities
Infrastructure.    (08)

When your true goal is the essential pursuit of the intrinsic and
indispensable properties of OHS and the Capabilities Infrastructure, matters
such as 'supported OSes' are quite trivial and irrelevant.    (09)

'Support OSes' and the ilk may eventually matter, but they are simple
implementation details that are relatively easy to solve.    (010)

It is far more important to concern ourselves with the elemental
characteristics of the Capabilities Infrastructure than to fret over
platform politics.    (011)

Most of us are fluent in several 'OSes' and we all know their advantages and
disadvantages. Thus, the logic of using one versus another should be plain,
particularly for ba-ohs-talkers.    (012)

Groove is a breakthrough socio-technical collective work paradigm. Its added
bonus is that it tangible and real today -- ready for continuous
improvement. (A key element of OHS). It moves our world yet another step
closer to CODIAK.    (013)

Advantages of inspiring innovation are rarely apparent until used.    (014)

The mandate for ba-ohs-talk is not to vex over petty computing principles,
but to fundamentally advance the concepts and practical deployments of OHS
and Collective IQ -- in whatever form they may take, fractional or
otherwise.    (015)

Meanwhile, I have no information of running Groove in a emulator. However,
when a new 2.4Ghz/256MB WinTel machine can be had for $799.00, you might
want to give the emulators a break.    (016)

"To abandon oneself to principles is really to die -- and to die for an
impossible love which is the contrary of love."    (017)

								- Albert Camus, 1953    (018)

Cheers,    (019)

-jtm    (020)

John Maloney
Email: jtmalone@pacbell.net
Tel: 415.902.9676
eFax: 415.276.6074
IM:jheuristic    (021)

Create the Future! Join the KM Cluster --
http://www.kmcluster.com/register.htm    (022)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ba-ohs-talk@bootstrap.org
[mailto:owner-ba-ohs-talk@bootstrap.org]On Behalf Of Henry K van Eyken
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 1:23 PM
To: ba-ohs-talk@bootstrap.org
Subject: Re: [ba-ohs-talk] Learning Groove    (023)

Thanks, Mark.    (024)

Also http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-07-2001/jw-0713-iw-ptop_p.html
which contains some caveats about privacy issues with Groove.    (025)

The assumption that all parties have the same underlying platform is a slap
in the users' faces. But then, I also understand that a considerable amount
of MS money has gone into Groove. As they say, "He who pays the piper ...."    (026)

Maybe, from his contacts,  John can answer the question about how well
Groove functions with W4L, the cheaper version of VMLinux. (I assume there
is an equivalent for these types of "emulators" for Mac's OS in which case a
similar question must be asked.)    (027)

The obvious answer to my initial question about whether someone is working
on an alternative  is, of course, the OHS, but it would be nice to have
something pending its arrival. For an operation ike Fleabyte it would be
nice to have an efficient, nofuss, no muss tool for co-authoring - actually,
ithere is a growing need for it at this point.    (028)

Henry    (029)

Mark Szpakowski wrote:    (030)

> A review article two years ago in InfoWorld
> (http://www.infoworld.com/articles/tc/xml/01/07/09/010709tcp2ph2h.xml)
> compared Groove to the Java-based HornShark. However, I can't find much
> about
> the latter or reach www.hornshark.com: probably demised.
> There's plenty of tools and frameworks for building the pieces that make
> up such a thing, but actually coming up with a complete product with a
> good UI and all the facilities is not trivial (Ray Ozzie had spent $60
> million on Groove by the time it launched).
> - Mark
> On Wednesday, April 10, 2002, at 01:46 PM, Henry K van Eyken wrote:
> > Is there a good alternative for obtaining the benefit of Groove? Have
> > people worked on or are any working on that?
> >
> > Actually, I posted the item mainly because I thought that it might
> > provide some useful insights or spark ideas.
> >
> > Henry
> >
> > Malcolm Dean wrote:
> >
> >> Lessee now, menu items are non-functional under Opera 6.1, and only
> >> supported OSes come from a crowd of convicted monopolists. I'll pass,
> >> thanks. Malcolm DeanLos Angeles
> >>
> ________________________________________
> Mark Szpakowski
> WebLog: http://radio.weblogs.com/0103362/    (031)