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Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Ivan Illich

Mei Lin,    (01)

You have identified the kinds of issues I was hoping would become fodder 
for discussion here, at fleabyte.org, and, perhaps, using D3E or 
Compendium.  Once again, I think this is OHS/DKR turf.    (02)

Jack    (03)

At 12:07 PM 11/28/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>I'm Mei Lin Fung, a few weeks ago, Eugene Kim mentioned my name when he
>the Core Planning Committee for the Bootstrap Alliance.
>I've owned the Ivan Illich books for 24+ years - momentos of the radical
>reading during
>a mis-spent youth - mis-spent being "schooled" !
>Now with a young daughter in elementary school, I'm glad to have absorbed
>his clear thinking so long ago - I'm finding it is a slippery slope to start
>down the road
>to academic excellence with your child.
>There is so much built-in conformity in school, and stress on individual
>No wonder it is hard to start to collaborate meaningfully, when there is so
>un-learning that needs to be done, to learn
>that teamwork can offer a path out of the zero-sum games.
>I've been intrigued by the story of how cathedrals came to be built.
>Massive projects, requiring work over multiple generations - at a time
>when having enough food, clothing and shelter were still real issues for
>each family.
>The initiators did not start with building plans. They
>thought about what organizational structures could sustain and complete
>a massively complex project that would extend beyond several lifetimes.
>Craft guilds, religious orders,...
>  the Masonic Society's members are called Masons.
>One vignette: As part of the project, one of the villages involved in the
>needed to transport heavy loads (stones?) to the site. They sold off some of
>their milk
>cows and bought bulls to pull the loads. That winter, the shortage of milk,
>lead to
>illness and death of some of their children. The price paid was heavy indeed
>the cathedrals of the middle ages, that still stand today.
>Tools for Conviviality offer a human-centric perspective that can inform
>the technology tools and organizational structures we work in/on/with today.
>Mei Lin
>    (04)