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[ba-unrev-talk] Fwd: Re: [issues] Re: [ACC] Framing the triggering questions

Towards a humane DKR...    (01)

>From: "Dr. Ely A. Dorsey" <edorsey@erols.com>
>Organization: Technology Studies for Peace and Justice Project
>All war is a form of fanaticism.  God is the first being drafted by all sides.
>There are no good bullets or bombs.  They are made to kill people.  The 
>of a soldier or a cop is to protect the infrastructure of power that prevails.
>There are no good soldiers or cops.  If armies were good, then after the evil
>for which the army was created was defeated there would be no need for an 
>Have you seen any armies disbanded lately?  Obviously armies or cops are not
>created to fight evil, they are part of an ongoing evil that powers do not 
>to defeat.
>9/11 was horrible and ugly and mean and sad.  BUT so was 9/10.  On 9/10 the UN
>Conference on Racism ended with every ethnic group in the world just as
>mistrustful of each other as before 9/10.  The US unfortunately did not
>participate because it was afraid that it would be held accountable for its
>history of slavery.  So 9/10 happened and then 9/11.  9/11 has brought tens of
>billions of dollars and cops and armies and bombs and all kinds of privacy
>violations and human rights compromises and alarmist fantasies.  9/10 has been
>ignored except that 65 million people are predicted to have HIV/Aids in 
>the near
>future. { If this forecast holds, it will have more of an impact on the
>sustainability of capitalism than all the money on Wall Street.  And this is
>just AIDS One, think of the sequels.} More people in Africa have died in the
>last week to problems associated with poverty, racism and western 
>than in 9/11, Afghanistan, Pakistan and wherever else the US is fighting its
>pseudo war on terrorism.
>What is going on now in the US and elsewhere is very stupid.  We do not 
>want to
>think differently.  Violence is an easier way to solve problems.  And 
>is not limited to the US, there are leaders and coalitions of idiots in every
>country of every faith of every persuasion.  Someone needs to say:  Stop!
>Enough!  Take a Deep Breath, Breathe!  Relax!  Calm Down!  Walk Away From 
>It For
>a Minute!  Easy!
>Where are those voices????
>John Collier wrote:
> > At 07:27 AM 11/07/02, Thommandel@aol.com wrote:
> > It occurred to me that framing the triggering question is not easy...
> >
> > A. What are the contributing factors/actions/events that led to the 911
> > explosions?
> >
> > 1. American arrogance clashed with the arrogance of Islamic fundamentalism.
> > This set the stage. Given the difference in power, it is the US 
> arrogance in
> > its unilateralism (except when multilateralism is convenient) that made it
> > a specific
> > target. The Islamic fundamentalists are also unilateralists. There was a
> > certain
> > sociopathy on both sides that was increasingly intransigent (and shows
> > no signs of having diminished -- the causes are still there).
> >
> > 2. Someone in al Qaeda got a brilliant but sinister idea.
> >
> > 3. There were enough devotees well place to carry it off.
> >
> > I think that 3 is the most variable part, and is closest to a 'trigger".
> >
> > B What are the contributing factors/actions/events that led to wide
> > disagreement about God?
> >
> > I think the main contributing factor is the idea that God cares for our
> > aspirations, and not
> > for us. It comes from the false identification of ourselves with our
> > aspirations. This is the
> > root of fanaticism. I doubt that there are any events or actions of any
> > significance in this case,
> > in that all would lead to the same end within this framework.
> >
> > John
> >
> > ----------
> > Dr John Collier                   john.collier@kla.univie.ac.at
> > Konrad Lorenz Institute for Evolution and Cognition Research
> > Adolf Lorenz Gasse 2            +432-242-32390-19
> > A-3422 Altenberg Austria                Fax: 242-32390-4
> > http://www.kli.ac.at/research.html?personal/collier    (02)