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[ba-unrev-talk] NOT: Really, It's That Simple

John, I respect your opinions and the reasoning behind them, but
on this on I have to disagree.    (01)

It is in the nature of a bully to use force to achieve their goals.
It is in the nature of the truly brave (Ghandi, for example) to
achieve their ends peaceably.    (02)

In Ghandi's case, too, occupation was ended, but by far less
brutal, despicable means.    (03)

What holds back Western nations is *conscience*. Massive
retaliation of the kind never before experienced on this planet
would else end the atrocities. But Western nations are held in
check by their own conscience. They do want the slaughter
of innocents on their hands.    (04)

Fantatics, on the other hand, know no such restrictions. That
puts even a large power at a disadvantage.    (05)

A lack of conscience allows a foreign leader to cry out against
the injustices done to him, while inciting equal and greater injustices
at the very same time.    (06)

The question is, at what point can a nation afford to *stop*
standing for fair play and honor??    (07)

It is lost in the dim recesses of history that the Palestinian state
was formed on the very same day as the Israeli state, by the
very same decree.    (08)

Immediately, the Israeli state was declared unacceptable by
the Palestinians, and war ensued.    (09)

Once vanguished, the Palestinians immediately set about hollering
about how their land was unjustly taken from them. Yet, once
given back, the wars resumed -- time and again, in one form or
another.    (010)

Each time, promises were made: "Give us back our land, and
there will be peace". But there never has been peace. This is
the way of things when you deal with people who have no honor.
They will say anything. They will promise anything. But they will
do nothing.    (011)

Unfortunately, Arafat is as totally without honor as anyone who
has ever existed on this planet. His words mean exactly nothing.
To accept any representation he makes is simply to play into his
hands, and to gain nothing in return.    (012)

For years now, the argument has been "We own it all. The Isreali's
have no right here. Israel has no right to exist."    (013)

Although there has been some softening of that position recently,
it has only come about as a result of the realization that force will
not rule the day.    (014)

To retreat in the face of that force is to give the bully everything
he wants. And after a stake has been driven far enough into the
heart of Isreal's borders, Isreal, too, will fall -- if the religious
fanatics have their way.    (015)

Maybe the Israeli state should have been founded on some
unoccupied islands in the South Pacific. I don't know. It sure
would have solved some problems -- not that anyone would
have gone there.    (016)

Personally, I see religious movements as the cause of the greatest
human suffering and the greatest travesties against mankind. To
be so totally enamored of some rock in the middle of a dessert
that one cannot even think of living elsewhere -- well, that defies
sensibility, in my book.    (017)

After religious fervor comes national fervor, and after that comes
free market excesses, in their capacity to do harm in the name of
good. But, like it or not, people do have those religious beliefs,
and they do hunger after the same piece of barren rock.    (018)

So, what is there to do?    (019)

The options are:
   1) Pick up the Isreali state and move it somewhere else.
   2) Get out, stay out, and don't care what happens to
   3) Keep working, by a combination of means, to fix the
       situation with carrots (concessions) and sticks (force)
       even if it takes 40 years, as with the cold war, or
       a few hundred years.
   4) Get really nasty and start hurting people so badly that
        they either quit, or there aren't enough left to make a
       difference.    (020)

I've no doubt left out some valid alternatives, but of that
list, I think #3 makes the most sense. It combines a sense
of honor and decency with the gumption not to get pushed
around.    (021)

On the other hand, when we start thinking about the problem
of nuclear waste, it occurs to me that I can think of a few
places I wouldn't mind dumping it....    (022)