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Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Re: Distinction between `practical certitude' and `certainty' was: RE: Facts - an attempted definition WAS: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Not In Our Name


> Yes.  Notice that when we talk about facts we tend to forget that our words
> are yet another set of facts having a structure of meaning that is close
> enough to parallel for others to read/hear and derive similar meaning in
> spite of their internal interpretations.  It's a wonder that language
> and thinking work at all?    (01)

Cool. My interpretation of matters so far is that with the exception of Eric S.
everyone's gone way off beam on the facts versus beliefs about facts
distinction. Just my interpretation though, and language is as fuzzy as one
cares to make it.    (02)

--
Peter    (03)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Pierce" <g_pierce@pacbell.net>
To: <ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 4:08 PM
Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Re: Distinction between `practical certitude' and
`certainty' was: RE: Facts - an attempted definition WAS: Re: [ba-unrev-talk]
Not In Our Name    (04)


> Eric, hello.  I have chopped up and chewed on your response below.  It
> looks to me like you have put some "time in grade" in these matters.
>
> Gerald Pierce, Q. E. D. Services.
>
> ADM Staff wrote:
> > Hi there,
> >
> > I like what Gary says below, and think the discussion about the status
> > of `facts' can be further clarified by introduction of the distinction
> > between `practical certitude' and `certainty'.
>
> Yes.  Notice that when we talk about facts we tend to forget that our words
> are yet another set of facts having a structure of meaning that is close
> enough to parallel for others to read/hear and derive similar meaning in
> spite of their internal interpretations.  It's a wonder that language
> and thinking work at all?
>
> > When I leave the house
> > in the morning to have breakfast at my favorite restaurant, I do not
> > ordinarily launch an inquiry as to whether it's still there; I have
> > `practical certitude' that it is.  However, if I discover upon arrival
> > that there is a gaping hole where the restaurant was previously located
> > (maybe building demolition), or some smoking ruins (maybe overnight
> > fire), I do then launch inquiry into what's going on.
>
> This is an easy one to solve.  It gets very much harder when the facts as
> recalled are in dispute with the interpretation of the facts.  Often there
> is a confusion of these two levels of abstraction resulting in suffering.
> Someone with this kind of malfunction could "miss breakfast" for years in
> the above scene. Ah, the injustice of it all!
>
> >
> > In sum, human beings typically operate - and necessarily so given
> > limited cognitive and physical capabilities -- with a set of settled
> > habits and settled beliefs.  However, sanity lies in ability to reopen
> > *any* habit or belief, to `unsettle' them, for further inquiry and
> > reconfiguration when circumstances, or desire for creative advance or
> > invention, so require.
>
> Sounds very much like Count Alfred Korzybski's operative defination of
> sanity.  ("Science and Sanity" 1933)
> >
> > More on these matters can be gleaned from my book:  "The Mind of the
> > Steward: Inquiry-based Philosophy for the 21st. century.'  at:
> >
> > http://worldstewards.com/id62.htm
> HEY! Lose the extra Chapter 26!
> >
> > My personal definition of `knowledge' is that it is `a disposition to
> > belive that if I interact with a particular part of the world in a
> > particular way, I will elicit a particular kind of experience'.  This
> > makes knowledge inherently non-absolute and open to inquiry.
> >
> > Hope the above is somewhat clear and helpful.
> >
> > Cordially, Eric Sommer
>
>
>    (05)