Re: [unrev-II] Visual stimuli & IBIS methodology

From: Peter Jones (ppj@concept67.fsnet.co.uk)
Date: Tue Nov 06 2001 - 13:23:25 PST

  • Next message: Peter Jones: "Re: [unrev-II] Visual stimuli & IBIS methodology"

    Albert Selvin wrote:
    > Jeff Conklin and others (disclaimer: including me) argue some of this in
    > the paper "Facilitated Hypertext for Collective Sensemaking: 15 Years on
    > from gIBIS", http://kmi.open.ac.uk/tr/papers/kmi-tr-112.pdf.

    Thanks for this paper, Al. Now I know where most of my worries (and clearly
    the authoring group's) went - into the facilitator.

    > I've started to think that perhaps we need to upgrade the frame of
    > reference we use for the skill required to create useful "algebras" for
    > collaborative design and decision-making. The toughest part is getting the
    > initial real-time 'capture' right.

    Could you expand on both these points more, please?

    Thanks,
    Peter

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: <albert.m.selvin@verizon.com>
    To: <unrev-II@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 5:32 PM
    Subject: Re: [unrev-II] Visual stimuli & IBIS methodology

    >
    > Eric wrote:
    >
    > >I have to agree that this a weakness of the system. In effect, it asks
    > people to learn algebra in order to do what they normally do, but do it
    > better. Symbolic logic was intended as a step in that direction, but it
    > failed to capture important nuances in useful ways. Our hope with
    > computerized systems is that we can do a better job of making important
    > relationships apparent to the beholder (or ourselves, when working on a
    > hard problem) but it is not clear that we have the mental cycles to do
    > that well, even as the beholder -- much less as the author.
    > >
    >
    >
    > I agree with much of this, but not that the difficulty of
    > learning/practicing IBIS in any of its variants implies a 'weakness of the
    > system'. Doing IBIS correctly and effectively, especially in real time in
    > front of a group of people, does indeed require practice and mastery. But
    > so do many other worthwhile things -- playing a musical instrument,
    > learning a sport, writing code.... The fact that playing the guitar, for
    > example, requires years of effort doesn't imply that this is a weakness of

    > the instrument. You can do powerful stuff with a guitar if you have the
    > right (painfully acquired) skills.
    >
    > Having practiced IBIS and variants for many years, as well as taught and
    > mentored many others (as well as seen too many try to adopt it and fail),
    > I've started to think that perhaps we need to upgrade the frame of
    > reference we use for the skill required to create useful "algebras" for
    > collaborative design and decision-making. The toughest part is getting the
    > initial real-time 'capture' right. Once the raw material is there in the
    > right form, adding value to it with computational and other processes is
    > relatively easy. But discerning what is "right" has many dimensions --
    what
    > is right for that particular group of people, faced with their particular
    > task and constraints, with their particular collection of learning and
    > discourse styles... It takes a lot of judgement, creativity, experience,
    > and skill to determine and apply all these -- just as it does to do the
    > right thing in a basketball game or jazz improvisation.
    >
    > Jeff Conklin and others (disclaimer: including me) argue some of this in
    > the paper "Facilitated Hypertext for Collective Sensemaking: 15 Years on
    > from gIBIS", http://kmi.open.ac.uk/tr/papers/kmi-tr-112.pdf.
    >
    >
    > Al
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
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